I wish you could have had different experience. You seem to have done everything right. (and you wrote a lot of details. That's what I think I'd have done) If only...
Thanks so much for sharing. I knew about these abusive rituals, having married into a family of former Orthodox Jews from Washington Heights, NYC and Teaneck, NJ. I once attended a family bar mitzvah service in Monsey.
How degrading to women to be taught such things, most which are only traditions in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish world. Traditions, mean they are interpreted by MEN from unclear mitzvot in Torah and Talmud. Again, interpreted by MEN to control women. I am so glad for you for having the courage to leave all of that. I can only imagine the sexual PTSD, from which you are still healing.
Of course, and as I have evolved in my healing journey, it is clear to me that men are traumatized as well. They are also not given adequate sex education and they too are forced to comply.
Only a crazy demented man would deny a basic human need to such an extreme. Rabbinic add ons to niddah laws are Christian influenced perversions. When the 3rd temple is built they will be abolished. Hashem created sex for men and women to enjoy within a loving covenant. As long as there is mutual consent and mutual respect, go nuts. 2000 years of exile made us forget that.
It is complex for sure, and blaming any individual wouldn’t be fair.
Do I think that religion played a role? Absolutely!
But do I think that it is only that? Absolutely not!
But there is no question in my mind that fundamentalist religions create an environment that is conducive to the abuse of women. I don’t believe that the low divorce rate is because there is less abuse, but because of other factors, such as social expectation/ostracization, women having less financial autonomy, and children born early in the marriage.
I know many, many very unhappy couples, as well as abused women in the community who feel like they have no choice but to stay married. Divorce is not an option for them.
Liba, with all due respect to your take on our religion, I see these "rituals" as misogynistic, controlling, and repressing. They make no sense except to keep men in control. Can you imagine a young woman taking a cloth that was in her vagina to the Rabbi for him to inspect? Is this is the bible? The mishna? The tulmad? This is bullshit, sick, and sexually traumatic to the woman. In "my" Judaism, we are taught about relationships, mutual respect, and emotional aspects involved when we have sex with another person. I will never believe that any of these Ultra-Orthodox rituals are anything but another way to make women subservient and bend to the will of men. If there is a god, believe me, he did not say take a cloth or your underwear to the Rabbi to inspect.
you’re not just a product of the patriarchy at this point, you are an enforcer. it doesn’t matter what your experience with the cloth was. being obligated to have your underwear inspected by an adult man is textbook sexual abuse and if another young girl experiences it as that she does not need your approval to call it what it is, traumatic and abusive.
This is why I publicly advocate for only keeping biblical niddah laws. There is no such thing as virgin blood being niddah. There are no harchakoth. In biblical niddah it's only seven days of abstinence, not 12. During biblical niddah hugging is allowed as long as you're wearing clothes. Sharing a bed and cuddling is allowed. The only things that are forbidden are kissing, actual intercourse, or anything that could tempt oneselves. If a temple era rabbi were to witness how couples observe all the add on they'd think we've lost our minds. I have written a book about this.
Making women feel impure during the natural process of menstruation is unfair and uncalled for. In some barbaric cultures, women are sent away to live in caves while they are on their period. They say the menstrual blood is a potential life lost. This is why orthodox women are forced to give birth to a dozen or more children during their childbearing years. It's another form of control to shame her when she has her period.
I think you're romanticizing some version of "temple era rabbi". Women were property. Men had multiple wives. They weren't making dinner for their wives and treating them to a candlelight dinner or taking care of the kids so their wives could have a night off. All you are really doing here is dictating a lighter, slight less oppressive version of primitive rules that are meant to control women and their bodies, determine if they are "clean" or "unclean".
Sometimes it's hard for me to believe that we come from the same religion. I'm sad for you and all those who have to go through this. I'm happy you have found your way to a better way of living. you are such an incredibly brave woman!!
Thank you so much for writing about your experience. I don't know if the people who need to read this ever will, but I hope so. May you go from strength to strength.
It’s so sad honestly for both of them. People so distant from their own bodies and capacity for pleasure. The Song of Songs in tne Jewish canon describes the opposite but somehow its lessons are never learned.
And the idea that pleasing god, is about going into heaven.. omg, what a distortion
Of what judaism really is about..
A gentile once came to a great sage by the the name of hillel the elder, he said: i want to convert to judaism, but i need you to teach me its entirety while i stand on one foot..
The sage proclaimed: that which is despised to u, do not do to your fellow - and all the rest of the laws are an explanation...
It literally says that in the Gemorah. It’s not like they’re making it up. You’re pulling a different verse, which is fine, but that doesn’t discount the fact that there is a verse that specifically says that about women.
I wish I could claim that the people who used these verses were not aware of the complexity of the matter. In reality, they are in leadership positions and recognized as scholarly in the community.
This is so disturbing, and so important that you've shared it. Thank you!
I still can’t believe I had the courage and awareness to write this 5 years ago!
Thank you for sharing your experience and your thoughts. It’s super important that what you do.
My heart breaks for you.
Sensitive and informative and sad.
I wish you could have had different experience. You seem to have done everything right. (and you wrote a lot of details. That's what I think I'd have done) If only...
the patriarchy sux
Amen
Thanks so much for sharing. I knew about these abusive rituals, having married into a family of former Orthodox Jews from Washington Heights, NYC and Teaneck, NJ. I once attended a family bar mitzvah service in Monsey.
How degrading to women to be taught such things, most which are only traditions in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish world. Traditions, mean they are interpreted by MEN from unclear mitzvot in Torah and Talmud. Again, interpreted by MEN to control women. I am so glad for you for having the courage to leave all of that. I can only imagine the sexual PTSD, from which you are still healing.
Of course, and as I have evolved in my healing journey, it is clear to me that men are traumatized as well. They are also not given adequate sex education and they too are forced to comply.
https://www.amazon.com/TRUE-REVOLUTION-ESCAPING-RECLAIMING-WORLD-ebook/dp/B0FLW9757R
Only a crazy demented man would deny a basic human need to such an extreme. Rabbinic add ons to niddah laws are Christian influenced perversions. When the 3rd temple is built they will be abolished. Hashem created sex for men and women to enjoy within a loving covenant. As long as there is mutual consent and mutual respect, go nuts. 2000 years of exile made us forget that.
It is complex for sure, and blaming any individual wouldn’t be fair.
Do I think that religion played a role? Absolutely!
But do I think that it is only that? Absolutely not!
But there is no question in my mind that fundamentalist religions create an environment that is conducive to the abuse of women. I don’t believe that the low divorce rate is because there is less abuse, but because of other factors, such as social expectation/ostracization, women having less financial autonomy, and children born early in the marriage.
I know many, many very unhappy couples, as well as abused women in the community who feel like they have no choice but to stay married. Divorce is not an option for them.
Good people will do the best they can, bad people will do the worst they can, but if you want good people to do bad you'll need religion.
Liba, with all due respect to your take on our religion, I see these "rituals" as misogynistic, controlling, and repressing. They make no sense except to keep men in control. Can you imagine a young woman taking a cloth that was in her vagina to the Rabbi for him to inspect? Is this is the bible? The mishna? The tulmad? This is bullshit, sick, and sexually traumatic to the woman. In "my" Judaism, we are taught about relationships, mutual respect, and emotional aspects involved when we have sex with another person. I will never believe that any of these Ultra-Orthodox rituals are anything but another way to make women subservient and bend to the will of men. If there is a god, believe me, he did not say take a cloth or your underwear to the Rabbi to inspect.
you’re not just a product of the patriarchy at this point, you are an enforcer. it doesn’t matter what your experience with the cloth was. being obligated to have your underwear inspected by an adult man is textbook sexual abuse and if another young girl experiences it as that she does not need your approval to call it what it is, traumatic and abusive.
So disturbing. Thank you fir bringing your story to the light
That’s awful. I’m sorry you went through this.
This is why I publicly advocate for only keeping biblical niddah laws. There is no such thing as virgin blood being niddah. There are no harchakoth. In biblical niddah it's only seven days of abstinence, not 12. During biblical niddah hugging is allowed as long as you're wearing clothes. Sharing a bed and cuddling is allowed. The only things that are forbidden are kissing, actual intercourse, or anything that could tempt oneselves. If a temple era rabbi were to witness how couples observe all the add on they'd think we've lost our minds. I have written a book about this.
https://www.amazon.com/TRUE-REVOLUTION-ESCAPING-RECLAIMING-WORLD-ebook/dp/B0FLW9757R
Making women feel impure during the natural process of menstruation is unfair and uncalled for. In some barbaric cultures, women are sent away to live in caves while they are on their period. They say the menstrual blood is a potential life lost. This is why orthodox women are forced to give birth to a dozen or more children during their childbearing years. It's another form of control to shame her when she has her period.
I think you're romanticizing some version of "temple era rabbi". Women were property. Men had multiple wives. They weren't making dinner for their wives and treating them to a candlelight dinner or taking care of the kids so their wives could have a night off. All you are really doing here is dictating a lighter, slight less oppressive version of primitive rules that are meant to control women and their bodies, determine if they are "clean" or "unclean".
Sometimes it's hard for me to believe that we come from the same religion. I'm sad for you and all those who have to go through this. I'm happy you have found your way to a better way of living. you are such an incredibly brave woman!!
Thank you so much for writing about your experience. I don't know if the people who need to read this ever will, but I hope so. May you go from strength to strength.
I'm so sorry you had such a traumatic experience
It’s so sad honestly for both of them. People so distant from their own bodies and capacity for pleasure. The Song of Songs in tne Jewish canon describes the opposite but somehow its lessons are never learned.
Yess
Unfortunately we find ourselves in a generation which suffers from a breakdown in leadership...
Many claim to be virtuous, and only after people get burned do they realize it...
I see it all across the board
The frum community has become so narrow minded, that its interpretation
Of what the gemoro intends, is as as far from the truth כרחוק מזרח ממערב...
Every fundamentalist religion uses his power to control and manipulate women.
There is nothing new to this or unique about this to the orthodox community.
As a man
I must say
That unfortunately
Many of these well
Meaning individuals, are
Flawed
They are flawed in their perception
And the idea that pleasing god, is about going into heaven.. omg, what a distortion
Of what judaism really is about..
A gentile once came to a great sage by the the name of hillel the elder, he said: i want to convert to judaism, but i need you to teach me its entirety while i stand on one foot..
The sage proclaimed: that which is despised to u, do not do to your fellow - and all the rest of the laws are an explanation...
It literally says that in the Gemorah. It’s not like they’re making it up. You’re pulling a different verse, which is fine, but that doesn’t discount the fact that there is a verse that specifically says that about women.
Well,
In the gemoro there
Are many intricate thing, someone who is not well versed, and isnt aware of the complexity of the matters can take things out of context
I wish I could claim that the people who used these verses were not aware of the complexity of the matter. In reality, they are in leadership positions and recognized as scholarly in the community.